By Johnathan Paoli
The Madlanga Commission of Inquiry has heard a recorded cellphone conversation between former Investigating Directorate Against Corruption (IDAC) head Andrea Johnson and IDAC attorney Drushantha Ramsamy showing how Johnson was looking for way to prevent the attorney from testifying, while she herself was before the Madlanga Commission of Inquiry.
During proceedings on Thursday, the commission heard an audio recording of a cellphone conversation between Ramsamy and Johnson that took place last week, with the IDAC attorney declaring she had decided to record the conversation because Johnson had already “scapegoated” her during her testimony.
ALSO READ: IDAC’s Ramsamy accuses Johnson, Perumal of manipulating police probes
“In the recording, I explained how the names ended up in the section 28(13) authorisation based on the names she gave me. At the start of the recording Adv Johnson made a startling remark that “we’ve gotta figure out how you don’t go”. In other words, find a way for me not to testify before the Commission,” Ramsamy said.
The commission had been examining IDAC’s investigation into the appointment of Crime Intelligence (CI) Technical Support Services head Brigadier Dineo Mokwele, CI head Lieutenant-General Dumisani head, and other senior CI officers on allegations of corruption and fraud.
The recording played before the commission began with Johnson warning Ramsamy that she expected the commission would call her as a witness.
“I can’t tell you why. You’ll have to figure out how you’re going to go,” Johnson told Ramsamy.
The conversation turned to the source of the names that appeared as suspects in the investigation, a question that commissioners had repeatedly put to Johnson during her testimony.
Johnson explained the difficulty she faced before the commission.
“They’re saying, when they look at the 28.13, it has all the suspects. When you look at the 28.13, you could only really make out Khumalo, maybe Madondo and Lushaba. Where did you get all the other names from?” Johnson asked.
Ramsamy answered that she had received the names directly from Johnson.
“That page that you gave me. The names were on that page that you gave me. The one in the folder. The one in the handwriting on the pink-purple page. Where would I have got those names from? I don’t know. You gave it to me on the morning just before I rushed to court. You gave me the 27 referral and the names on the handwritten page,” she said.
Johnson responded that she could not remember where the names originated.
“Because they are asking me where you got the names from, and I honestly am saying, I’m not sure. Because I can’t remember,” the former IDAC head said.
Ramsamy insisted that she remembered the events clearly and linked the names to discussions between Johnson, chief investigator Dylan Perumal and complainant and National Coloured Congress MP Fadiel Adams.
“No, no. I remember distinctly because that’s why I also put it in my email. I received the 27 referral, and I received that piece of paper with handwriting, and it was the suspects that was written on there. And you explained to me that the suspects were after Dylan had consulted with Fadiel. That’s how the list came about,” Ramsamy said in the recording.
ALSO READ: Cabinet approves 10-year validity for some driving licence cards
“Before I did the 28, before I even received the 27, the list was compiled on that page with the handwriting. And you had indicated that Fadiel and Dylan had consulted, and that’s where it came from,” she added.
Johnson expressed concern about the implications of the commission’s questioning.
“I’ve now abused my power by authorising other people’s names that are there,” she said.
But Ramsamy maintained her version, telling Johnson that it was confirmed on her email.
The commission also heard Johnson criticise her own performance before the inquiry.
“Today I must have been the dumbest lawyer South Africa has seen. It’s not what you know. I didn’t know Section 28, I didn’t know Section 27, I know nothing. I’m as dumb as two bricks,” she said,
Explaining that she had suffered a panic attack, was taking medication and felt unable to concentrate during her testimony.
But the former IDAC head did not hold back from criticising the commission itself.
“And they makes faces, they laugh with each other while you’re still answering. It’s so unprofessional. We’ll see what we’re all going to do, but it’s just going to be a shit show,” Johnson said.
Ramsamy reiterated to the commission that she had consistently maintained the names in the authorisation originated from a handwritten note Johnson gave her together with the Section 27 referral affidavit on 5 December 2024.
She said that, after the arrests in the CI investigation, IDAC officials urgently searched for the original Section 27 referral affidavit.
Ramsamy said she had emailed Johnson explaining that Johnson was the last person confirmed to have possession of the original document but was unable to explain how investigators proceeded without it.
Commissioner Sandile Khumalo described the issue as a significant concern, while Commission chair Mbuyiseli Madlanga remarked that the discrepancies between the referral affidavit and subsequent arrests suggested someone had “probably lied too”.
Proceedings continue.
